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SQL Server Forum / Other Technologies / Clustering / May 2006

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SQL transaction logs on iSCSI

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AJ - 14 Mar 2006 17:38 GMT
We have been advised that there are performance issues with putting
transaction logs on iSCSI targets.  Can anyone give more
detail/confirm/repudiate this?

We are looking at implementing a two node (probably single instance to begin
with) SQL 2K cluster with an iSCSI or fibre channel set of disk resources.  
We would prefer to use iSCSI due to our existing data network but we are
unsure of the performance implications of doing this.

Has anyone installed anything similar?  I have been looking at NetApp, EMC
and HP iSCSI targets.

Thanks in advance.  Any pointers are appreciated.
Geoff N. Hiten - 14 Mar 2006 18:09 GMT
I have heard too many horror stories about iSCSI storage with SQL to be
comfortably using any solution.  I do know some people have had success
using iSCSI, but when it goes bad, it goes way, way bad.  I would not
recommend using iSCSI without a manufacturer showing me both a live customer
install AND letting me play with a setup for afew days.

I have had excellent results with EMC Clariion boxes, provided the SAN
Architect actually understands how to set up a system for Microsoft SQL
Server.

Either way, don't automatically select the lowest cost provider.  If this is
your first foray into the SAN world, you really need good advice and
guidance.  That means paying for professional services along with the
hardware.  Make sure your vendor can provide both to the level you need.

Signature

Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP

> We have been advised that there are performance issues with putting
> transaction logs on iSCSI targets.  Can anyone give more
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance.  Any pointers are appreciated.
Tom Moreau - 14 Mar 2006 19:03 GMT
I'm one of the guys that had an iSCSI array go south - big time.   I never
want to have an iSCSI inflicted upon me ever again.

Signature

  Tom

----------------------------------------------------
Thomas A. Moreau, BSc, PhD, MCSE, MCDBA
SQL Server MVP
Columnist, SQL Server Professional
Toronto, ON   Canada
www.pinpub.com
.

I have heard too many horror stories about iSCSI storage with SQL to be
comfortably using any solution.  I do know some people have had success
using iSCSI, but when it goes bad, it goes way, way bad.  I would not
recommend using iSCSI without a manufacturer showing me both a live customer
install AND letting me play with a setup for afew days.

I have had excellent results with EMC Clariion boxes, provided the SAN
Architect actually understands how to set up a system for Microsoft SQL
Server.

Either way, don't automatically select the lowest cost provider.  If this is
your first foray into the SAN world, you really need good advice and
guidance.  That means paying for professional services along with the
hardware.  Make sure your vendor can provide both to the level you need.

Signature

Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP

> We have been advised that there are performance issues with putting
> transaction logs on iSCSI targets.  Can anyone give more
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Thanks in advance.  Any pointers are appreciated.
Linchi Shea - 14 Mar 2006 19:56 GMT
> guidance.  That means paying for professional services along with the
> hardware.  Make sure your vendor can provide both to the level you need.

In addition to that, you should thoroughly test it out, if you have
resources to do so. Hearing stories is good. but nothing beats actually
testing it yourself.

Linchi

> I have heard too many horror stories about iSCSI storage with SQL to be
> comfortably using any solution.  I do know some people have had success
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> >
> > Thanks in advance.  Any pointers are appreciated.
Rodney R. Fournier [MVP] - 15 Mar 2006 05:11 GMT
I am putting up a 20 TB SQL iSCSI SAN very soon. If done correctly, iSCSI is
great!

Cheers,

Rodney R. Fournier

MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://www.msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
ClusterHelp.com is a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner

>I have heard too many horror stories about iSCSI storage with SQL to be
>comfortably using any solution.  I do know some people have had success
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>>
>> Thanks in advance.  Any pointers are appreciated.
AJ - 15 Mar 2006 11:46 GMT
I was looking at putting in the new HP StorageWorks 1510i as it is exactly
the level of kit that we want, priced at the right level for us.

Plenty of people have set up SQL SANs with the HP 1500 with fibre channel;
it's tried and tested kit.  I can't see that it is going to be any different
with iSCSI over Ethernet.  The only thing that is changing is the transport
mechanism.

I appreciate that there are differences between the physical and data link
mechanisms of fibre channel and Ethernet, not least being that if iSCSI if
run over Ethernet there is more chance of misconfiguring devices.  Fibre
channel switches tend to be less configurable that their Ethernet
counterparts.

Given that we will be using iSCSI adapters, Cisco switches with a 32Gbps
swicth fabric, all in a single VLAN in a single location and that iSCSI and
fibre channel compare on data throughput, I tend to lean towards the idea
that it should work fine.

The supplier we are using have offered to test the setup before we buy it so
we don't have to comit blindly, although there is always the uncertainty of
production levels of traffic.  We can simulate load with SQL I/O and compare
this to the benchmark figures gained from the same set up with fibre channel.
I guess this is as much of a pre-production stress test as it can be given.

AJ.

> I am putting up a 20 TB SQL iSCSI SAN very soon. If done correctly, iSCSI is
> great!
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> >>
> >> Thanks in advance.  Any pointers are appreciated.
Veeru - 17 Mar 2006 12:56 GMT
So AJ / Rodney ,

Did it work properly I was using same setup long time back and had to
ultimately switch to SAN Solution with Fibre Optic ... Please share your
results...

> I was looking at putting in the new HP StorageWorks 1510i as it is exactly
> the level of kit that we want, priced at the right level for us.
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
> > >>
> > >> Thanks in advance.  Any pointers are appreciated.
Rodney R. Fournier [MVP] - 17 Mar 2006 15:29 GMT
http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/columnItem/0,294698,sid5_gci1161824,00.html?
track=NL-52&ad=546250


Cheers,

Rodney R. Fournier

MVP - Windows Server - Clustering
http://www.nw-america.com - Clustering Website
http://www.msmvps.com/clustering - Blog
http://www.clusterhelp.com - Cluster Training
ClusterHelp.com is a Microsoft Certified Gold Partner

> So AJ / Rodney ,
>
[quoted text clipped - 96 lines]
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks in advance.  Any pointers are appreciated.
Douglas Watt - 03 May 2006 19:04 GMT
Well I can say that I have been using SQL2K running iSCSI to you NetApp for
over 2 years now. I have 4 DB servers that have a total of about 150GB of
databases between the servers. I have boththe logs and the DB out on the
filer. I noticed a definate performance increase when they were moved over. I
don't have the logs or the DBs on local disk.

I have had a couple of issues, espically since I was testign it when it
became available, but nothing that caused any data loss or corruption. Over
all it has been running great.

The recommendations I can give are make sure your traffic is isolated off
the public network. make it as redundant as possible. Mostly don't cut
corners on products either. I run HP server with teamed NICs going to two
seperate trunked Cisco switches.
Signature

Douglas Watt

> I have heard too many horror stories about iSCSI storage with SQL to be
> comfortably using any solution.  I do know some people have had success
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> >
> > Thanks in advance.  Any pointers are appreciated.
Steve Cook - 26 May 2006 00:41 GMT
Hi Douglas,
Where do you have the error logs, like the VDI.log, is that on the local or
SAN storage?
Thanks,
-Steven D Cook.

> Well I can say that I have been using SQL2K running iSCSI to you NetApp
> for
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance.  Any pointers are appreciated.
 
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