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SQL Server Forum / General / Data Warehousing / March 2005

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MS AS vs. Cognos PowerPlay

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AlexD - 03 Nov 2004 17:29 GMT
We need to make a choice between using MS AS or Cognos PowerPlay. PowerPlay  
has a much better interface and some advantages.
Can anyone comment on this? Also, does anyone know of good fron-end products
to create MS AS cubes rather than using the Microsoft UI?
Thanks
Alex
alexdinu1@hotmail.com
J?j? - 04 Nov 2004 01:37 GMT
The power of cognos cubes and AS cubes is completly different!
AS provide the MDX language which allow a user or developper to do
"anything" with the cubes.
you can create complex calculations which is not possible with cognos.

second point, cognos cubes can only be viewed with cognos products ! you
can't use any third party front end tools. For AS you can find a lot of
tools and choose 1 or more regarding your needs and usage (at least excel
can be used) (also, cognos can use AS cubes)

from an administrator side, I prefer AS rather then Cognos.
first because I have always the right numbers in a AS cube. with cognos its
a knightmare to have the same total (in the database and in the cube)

second: the crashes... in the past (I known cognos has work on it) if my PP
transformer application crashed before my save, then my entire cube become
corrupt!!!!

other point: the security and the performance of the cognos cubes is poor
and you can't know what you have to optimize in your cube. AS provide some
statistics and help you to add aggregations to improve the performance.

also, AS allow you to create new cubes based on existing dimensions (or
virtual cubes based on existing cubes) , this reduce the time to create new
cubes.
For example, today you create a employee contracts cubes, tomorrow you'll
create a nw cube for the activities, the dimension is already created and
ready to use. and if you want to cross-analysis your 2 cubes, simply create
a virtual cube and its all ! no space required on the disk.
With cognos, to do the same job you have to create 3 different cubes you
have to create 3 times the dimension and 3 cubes to process.

cognos has 2 advantages:
1. it create MDC file, so you can send it by email to your users
2. the process is done if your data source is dirty. (some times its an
advantages, but some other times its not)

For example:
imagine your contract fact table contain an employeeid "555" but this
employeeid doesn't exist in the Employee dimension, in AS your cube will
fail to process (or ignore the error regarding some process option choose)
In cognos, the process simply create a new employee in the employee
dimension, but, because there is no name associated, you 'll see only "555",
you don't loose any values, but your dimension is now dirty.

to finish AS support parent-child dimensions, custom rollup formula, cell
level security, , actions, write back, nultiple storage mode (MOLAP, ROLAP,
HOLAP, Real-time), dynamic formatting (changing the color of a cell
regarding a value; example: sales <500$ in red) and a lot of OLAP formula.

AS 2005 will provide new features like:
* multiple drill through
* new dimension management system (which provide reach end user experience)
* multi-currency
* full multilanguage
* automatic generation of the datamart from your cube design
* predefined cube templates
* visual source safe support

I hope this help you.

> We need to make a choice between using MS AS or Cognos PowerPlay.
> PowerPlay
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Alex
> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
John - 04 Nov 2004 15:35 GMT
Hi J?j?,

It certainly helps me although is was not my question :o)

In a presentation of PowerPlay Transformer I have seen how you can create
custom dimension levels by using drag'n'drop to select the members. Do you
know if functionality like this is also available in AS?

- John

> The power of cognos cubes and AS cubes is completly different!
> AS provide the MDX language which allow a user or developper to do
[quoted text clipped - 67 lines]
>> Alex
>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
AlexD - 04 Nov 2004 16:40 GMT
Actually, the issue is that with PP transformer, you can easily create cubes
and it can for e.g. also automatically create multiple dimentions, which
makes the cube creation a better experience. Since there is more to AS than
cube building, I'm sure that there are 3rd party vendors that can replace the
MS UI to create cubes with their own, which will obviously run on top of the
MS AS OLAP engine.

Does anyone know any such tools?

> Hi Jéjé,
>
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
> >> Alex
> >> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
J?j? - 05 Nov 2004 00:45 GMT
you can't do this in AS
And, from my point of view, its what I call "dirty dimension". Yes, its
cool, you can put the Irak under the USA country ;-)
But its a real garbage, specially if your users can access the same
information from another way (like a report where the Irak is not under the
USA...)

In the past I've tested a product to create cubes quickly, (appsmart from
Appsco, but I'm not sure if the company is alive ;)).
But also, you can look at the BI Accelerator  (from MS)
with this tool you can create your cube and the associated datamart from an
Excel file.

> Hi J?j?,
>
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
>>> Alex
>>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Reg Besseling - 09 Nov 2004 13:54 GMT
you asked for someone to comment and i quote "PowerPlay has a much better
interface and some advantages. Can anyone comment on this?" this was well
addressed by J?j?,

e in message news:OF4v1tnwEHA.3976@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Hi J?j?,
>
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
>>> Alex
>>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
michelle - 09 Nov 2004 14:31 GMT
Thanks! This discussion is very interesting! We do not yet have a data
warehouse but have a couple of cubes that were built but not really using
any standards. We have some requirements on the horizon and are looking into
how to leverage our existing products. We are heavy sql server users and I'm
glad to find some positive comments on using this for our needs. I was
disappointed that Microsoft was not represented at the recent TDWI
conference and of the 6 classes that I attended, SQL Server and it's tools
were rarely mentioned as options.

Michelle

> Hi J?j?,
>
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
> >> Alex
> >> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Elad Israeli - 09 Nov 2004 14:48 GMT
Maybe that's because SQL Server and Analysis Services need no tooting...
They speak for themselves :-)

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> Thanks! This discussion is very interesting! We do not yet have a data
> warehouse but have a couple of cubes that were built but not really using
[quoted text clipped - 108 lines]
>> >> Alex
>> >> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Bob - 29 Mar 2005 15:25 GMT
John and Alex,

Could you explain the application you are looking to support?  Is the issue
that you want to make it easier for analysts to define their own private
dimensions easily and apply those to existing cubes?  Or are you looking for
a tool that makes it easier for an analyst to set up a cube in the first
place?  If it is the former do you then expect to give your analyst the
option of reprocessing the cube to incorporate their newly defined dimension?
How would you control system load under such a scenario?

If the point is simply that creating cubes is easy for the data warehouse
designer with Cognos have you checked out SQL Server 2005 beta 2 yet?  
Creating cubes is close to trivial with AS 2005 (not to be confused with
deciding which cubes you need to create which still requires thinking despite
what the wizard may tell you), and the flexibility and performance is off the
charts compared to what you would produce with Cognos.  So if you are
planning for the long range take a look at 2005 before deciding to go with
Cognos vs. AS 2000.

> Hi Jéjé,
>
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
> >> Alex
> >> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Reg Besseling - 09 Nov 2004 13:50 GMT
Alex,
please elobrate on the so called advantages thet PP has over AS

Reg

P.S. an interface does not make a better product ( if this is your selection
criteria i dont want to be the devloper makeing cubes in your company)

> We need to make a choice between using MS AS or Cognos PowerPlay.
> PowerPlay
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Alex
> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Elad Israeli - 09 Nov 2004 14:09 GMT
IMHO, Cognos have absolutely no advantages over AS that are worth mentioning
from an OLAP Server standpoint.  The only advantage Cognos have is from a
client tool standpoint.  That is, many consider the Cognos client tool more
intuitive for users, but that requires you to purchase everything from one
vendor, while AS allow you to choose from quite an extensive variety of
client tools.

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> Alex,
> please elobrate on the so called advantages thet PP has over AS
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>> Alex
>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Reg Besseling - 10 Nov 2004 06:57 GMT
I have to agree :)  i asked the question so Alex could defend his highly
inflamitory statement that PP has any advantages over AS

> IMHO, Cognos have absolutely no advantages over AS that are worth
> mentioning from an OLAP Server standpoint.  The only advantage Cognos have
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>> Alex
>>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Marco Groeneveld - 10 Nov 2004 12:49 GMT
Hi,

We have experience with MSAS (OLAP Database) + Panorama Novaview
(frontend) compared with Cognos PowerPlay and one of our customers
have made the decision to go for MSAS + Panorama NovaView instead of
Cognos PowerPlay based fast performance, very good user interface and
total cost.

Please visit www.gmsbv.nl and you can see Panorama NovaView live from
one of our customer internet websites and see the features and
performance live over internet.

Regards, Marco

> I have to agree :)  i asked the question so Alex could defend his highly
> inflamitory statement that PP has any advantages over AS
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> >>> Alex
> >>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Elad Israeli - 10 Nov 2004 13:03 GMT
Panorama NovaView does NOT have better performance over Cognos PowerPlay.
Analysis Services HAS better performance than Cognos, but the Cognos client
tool is quite robust and has very good interface.

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> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>> >>> Alex
>> >>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Marco Groeneveld - 10 Nov 2004 20:55 GMT
Hi,

Well I have to say that the Panorama java webclient is one of the
fastest OLAP clients available. Even it is faster than the Panorama
html webclient.

We have experience that any html client is slower in performance than
the Panorama java webclient!

Maybe this is also due to MSAS MOLAP but more based on the Panorama
Intelligence Server!

Regards, Marco

> Panorama NovaView does NOT have better performance over Cognos PowerPlay.
> Analysis Services HAS better performance than Cognos, but the Cognos client
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> >> >>> Alex
> >> >>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Kent Johnson - 10 Nov 2004 20:57 GMT
I'm using SQL-server and Cognos PowerPlay.
I've never seen Analysis Services in action.
Is there a demo site somewhere that shows the frontend?
/Kent J.

> Panorama NovaView does NOT have better performance over Cognos PowerPlay.
> Analysis Services HAS better performance than Cognos, but the Cognos client
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> >> >>> Alex
> >> >>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Reg Besseling - 11 Nov 2004 08:06 GMT
AS is free if you are licenced for SQL server simply get out the CD and
install AS as with most MS products there is a demo set of cubes called
FoodMart as well as tutorials installed when you install AS

After the install you will find the analysis manager in your SQL server
group on the start menu

If you do this you wont be sorry

R :)

> I'm using SQL-server and Cognos PowerPlay.
> I've never seen Analysis Services in action.
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>> >> >>> Alex
>> >> >>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
Marco Groeneveld - 11 Nov 2004 13:11 GMT
Yes you can see MS AS 2000 live on internet.

Please visit our website and click on the CWI logo on teh webpage
Klanten (=customers) you will see Panorama NovaView on MSAS 2000.

Regards, Marco
www.gmsbv.nl

> I'm using SQL-server and Cognos PowerPlay.
> I've never seen Analysis Services in action.
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> > >> >>> Alex
> > >> >>> alexdinu1@hotmail.com
 
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